Legislature(2007 - 2008)SENATE FINANCE 532

02/29/2008 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= SB 256 SUPPLEMENTAL/CAPITAL APPROPRIATIONS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 13 RETIREMENT SYSTEM LIABILITY/BONDS/CORP. TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ SB 229 TANANA VALLEY FOREST/MINTO FLATS REFUGE TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                  SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                     February 29, 2008                                                                                          
                         9:07 a.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman called the Senate  Finance Committee meeting                                                                   
to order at 9:07:59 AM.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyman Hoffman, Co-Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Bert Stedman, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice-Chair                                                                                             
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Joe Thomas                                                                                                              
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
None                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Mike Hawker;  Amanda  Ryder, Fiscal  Analyst,                                                                   
Legislative  Finance;  Brian  Andrews,  Deputy  Commissioner,                                                                   
Treasury Division,  Department of  Revenue; Adam  Stoll, Vice                                                                   
President, Goldman  Sachs; Greg Sundberg,  Managing Director,                                                                   
Merrill Lynch                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jeff Urbina,  Vice President,  Wachovia Securities,  Seattle;                                                                   
Carol  Samuels,  Senior  Vice  President,  Seattle  Northwest                                                                   
Securities, Oregon                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SB 256    "An   Act   making   supplemental   appropriations,                                                                   
          capital   appropriations,   reappropriations,   and                                                                   
          other     appropriations;      amending     certain                                                                   
          appropriations;  ratifying   certain  expenditures;                                                                   
          making  appropriations  to  capitalize  funds;  and                                                                   
          providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          SB 256 was heard and  HELD in Committee for further                                                                   
          consideration.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CSHB 13(FIN)                                                                                                                    
          "An   Act  relating   to  prepayments  of   accrued                                                                   
          actuarial  liabilities   of  government  retirement                                                                   
          systems;  relating  to  the Alaska  Municipal  Bond                                                                   
          Bank   Authority,   the  Alaska   Housing   Finance                                                                   
          Corporation,   and   the  state   bond   committee;                                                                   
          establishing  the  Alaska Pension  Obligation  Bond                                                                   
          Corporation;  permitting the Alaska  Municipal Bond                                                                   
          Bank Authority or a  subsidiary of the authority, a                                                                   
          subsidiary   of   the    Alaska   Housing   Finance                                                                   
          Corporation,  the  state  bond committee,  and  the                                                                   
          Alaska  Pension  Obligation   Bond  Corporation  to                                                                   
          assist state  and municipal governmental  employers                                                                   
          by  issuing  bonds,  notes,  commercial  paper,  or                                                                   
          other  obligations   to  enable   the  governmental                                                                   
          employers  to  prepay  all  or  a  portion  of  the                                                                   
          governmental  employers'  shares  of  the  unfunded                                                                   
          accrued   actuarial   liabilities   of   retirement                                                                   
          systems;  authorizing  a governmental  employer  to                                                                   
          issue  obligations to  prepay all  or a portion  of                                                                   
          the governmental employer's  shares of the unfunded                                                                   
          accrued   actuarial   liabilities   of   retirement                                                                   
          systems  and  to  enter   into  a  lease  or  other                                                                   
          contractual  agreement with  a trustee, the  Alaska                                                                   
          Municipal  Bond Bank Authority  or a subsidiary  of                                                                   
          the authority,  a subsidiary of the  Alaska Housing                                                                   
          Finance Corporation,  the state bond  committee, or                                                                   
          the Alaska  Pension Obligation Bond  Corporation in                                                                   
          connection  with the  issuance  of obligations  for                                                                   
          that  purpose, and relating  to those  obligations;                                                                   
          relating to  revision of the employer  contribution                                                                   
          rate  in  connection  with financed  prepayment  of                                                                   
          unfunded    accrued   actuarial   liabilities    of                                                                   
          government  retirement systems;  and providing  for                                                                   
          an effective date."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          CSHB 13  (FIN) was heard and HELD  in Committee for                                                                   
          further consideration.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SB 229    "An Act relating to the Tanana Valley State Forest                                                                    
          and  to assignment  of certain  forest land  to the                                                                   
          Minto  Flats State Game  Refuge; and providing  for                                                                   
          an effective date."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          SB 229 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:08:20 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 256                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act  making  supplemental  appropriations,  capital                                                                   
     appropriations,     reappropriations,      and     other                                                                   
     appropriations;    amending   certain    appropriations;                                                                   
     ratifying  certain expenditures;  making  appropriations                                                                   
     to  capitalize funds;  and  providing  for an  effective                                                                   
     date."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman noted it was  the third hearing on SB 256 by                                                                   
the Senate Finance Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:11:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TIM  GRUSSENDORF, STAFF,  CO-CHAIR LYMAN  HOFFMAN, turned  to                                                                   
page 7 of the supplemental requests  spreadsheet for CSSB 256                                                                   
(FIN) to explain  modifications and additions  that have been                                                                   
made:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Sections 7-9   Natural Resources   Oil & Gas                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Cost to  implement ch.1,  SSSLA 2007 (HB  2001) Alaska's                                                                   
     Clear and  Equitable Share legislation.   Add two  Oil &                                                                   
     Gas Revenue  Audit Master exempt positions.   The amount                                                                   
     is reduced  from the original  fiscal note due  to later                                                                   
     than  anticipated hiring  of the positions.     The FY09                                                                   
     budget contains a related increase of $303.5.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
 Mr. Grussendorf explained that the number was reduced from                                                                     
 $110,000 to $85,000 due to positions not yet hired.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Sections 7-9   Public Safety    Judicial Services - Anchorage                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Assume  Anchorage prisoner  transport  duties.   Assumes                                                                   
     December 2007  hire date for six new positions.   Covers                                                                   
     one-time  purchases and  share of  annual expenses.   If                                                                   
     one-time  costs are  not funded  here, additional  funds                                                                   
     will be  needed in FY09.   In the FY09 budget  at $656.3                                                                   
     for a full year's costs,  but that does not include one-                                                                   
     time costs.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  related that the reduction from  $620,300 to                                                                   
$477,600 is  because the  new positions  have not been  hired                                                                   
yet.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Section 13(a)   Environmental Conservation   Water Quality                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Implementation  of  the   Ocean  Ranger  program.    The                                                                   
     contract needs  to be established early  enough to allow                                                                   
     the contractor to hire and  train Ocean Rangers prior to                                                                   
     the season  beginning in May 2008.  The  contractor will                                                                   
     incur  substantial  expenditures for  hiring,  training,                                                                   
     and   purchasing  equipment   in  preparation   for  the                                                                   
     upcoming  season.    In  addition  to  the  contractor's                                                                   
     costs,  the  department is  incurring  expenditures  for                                                                   
     paying staff  and other expenditures  for implementation                                                                   
     of the program.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  reported that  the language was  modified to                                                                   
clarify that  the program  spends no more  than the  $4 berth                                                                   
tax that it generates.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Section 22   Education School Performance Incentive Program                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     If  the  amount  necessary  to  pay  school  performance                                                                   
     incentives  exceeds the  amount  appropriated for  FY08,                                                                   
     the additional  amount necessary  is appropriated.   The                                                                   
     department won't  know the final amount  until after the                                                                   
     legislature   has  adjourned.     Similar  language   is                                                                   
     included in the FY09 operating budget.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  explained that  the Governor had  proposed a                                                                   
three-year line  for the performance  incentive program.   An                                                                   
additional $1.4  million will be  funded for the  program and                                                                   
allow  a report  to be  generated to  see if  the program  is                                                                   
working as expected.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
9:13:47 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Section 27   Debt Fund Capitalization   PCE Fund                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Increase   PCE  Fund  capitalization   by  $700.0   from                                                                   
     $12,999.4   GF  to  $13,699.4   GF  (total   funds  from                                                                   
     $25,273.0  to $25,973.0)  in order  to provide  more PCE                                                                   
     funding needed due to increased fuel costs.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  explained that  the number was  changed from                                                                   
$700,000 to  $1.2 million  for FY 08,  and the FY  09 request                                                                   
would be reduced  by $500,000 in order to fully  fund PCE for                                                                   
FY 08.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Grussendorf  reported   on  a   new  appropriation   of                                                                   
$13,261,000 to Retirement & Benefits  that will depend on the                                                                   
passage of SB 125, which is the  PERS/TRS bill.  It will be a                                                                   
one-time payment  for the  "heroes list"  and those  who were                                                                   
under  the  rate of  22  percent.    If SB  125  passes,  the                                                                   
language  regarding the  "phase  up" to  22  percent will  be                                                                   
removed.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:15:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  reported on a new appropriation  to Commerce                                                                   
regarding QTA Independent Travelers  Grants.  All non-Vehicle                                                                   
Rental Tax  funds will  be replaced  with Vehicle Rental  Tax                                                                   
funding.   The Vehicle  Rental  Tax will be  placed into  the                                                                   
Department of Natural Resources, Parks Management.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Grussendorf   related   that  there   would  be   a  new                                                                   
appropriation of  $150 million for the capitalization  of the                                                                   
new fund  for revenue sharing  to Commerce, Revenue  Sharing,                                                                   
contingent on the passage of SB 72.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  explained  a new appropriation  to Fish  and                                                                   
Game for the Anchorage  Hatchery.  It is a  scope change that                                                                   
removes language  enabling funding to be spent  on a hatchery                                                                   
in  Fairbanks  (leaving  a  hatchery  for  Anchorage  in  the                                                                   
appropriation language).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf said that there  is a new Fund Capitalization                                                                   
to  the  Statutory  Budget  Reserve   which  appropriates  $1                                                                   
billion of the FY 08 surplus to the SBR.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  reported another new Fund  Capitalization to                                                                   
the  Constitutional Budget  Reserve  of  an appropriation  of                                                                   
$2.6 billion of the Fy08 surplus to the CBR.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Grussendorf  explained   a  language   change  in   the                                                                   
Department  of Revenue,  Shared Taxes  and Fees, which  would                                                                   
add shared taxes  and fees language for revenue  collected in                                                                   
FY  08, remove  the commercial  passenger  vessel excise  tax                                                                   
from  FY  09's budget,  and  not  include  it  in the  FY  08                                                                   
supplemental to  ensure that the correct persons  receive the                                                                   
payment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:18:04 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Grussendorf related  that  a new  appropriation of  $200                                                                   
million to the Department of Revenue,  Alaska Housing Finance                                                                   
Corporation (AHFC),  is part of  a new energy  program called                                                                   
the  Alaska  Housing  Energy  Efficiency  and  Weatherization                                                                   
Program.   Another appropriation of  $100 million is  part of                                                                   
the new Alaska Housing Home Energy Rating Rebate Program.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf noted that there  is a new placeholder of $50                                                                   
million  for  the Department  of  Transportation  and  Public                                                                   
Facilities, for capital projects.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Grussendorf  reported on an appropriation  of $68 million                                                                   
to the Department  of Administration for capital  in order to                                                                   
replace the Master Lease Line  of Credit Funding with general                                                                   
funds.   This  will reduce  the FY  09 budget  by $4  million                                                                   
(reduction  in  debt  service  payments)  and  will  add  $68                                                                   
million  to  the  supplemental:  $10  m  (SATS/ALMR),  $41  m                                                                   
(AKPAY), $17 m (phone system).                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:19:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Grussendorf highlighted  the  total  projects that  were                                                                   
deleted  and approved,  and  the  amount the  Senate  Finance                                                                   
Committee has added, including supplemental savings.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Section 26 (f)   Transportation                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The Environmental Protection  Agency (EPA) has initiated                                                                   
     an enforcement action against  DOT&PF, alleging multiple                                                                   
     violations of the Clean Water  Act.  In addition, EPA is                                                                   
     requesting   information  regarding   sand  and   gravel                                                                   
     sources.   EPA believes that DOT&PF and  its contractors                                                                   
     have been  operating material sites  without appropriate                                                                   
     storm water permits.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     The  EPA has  proposed settling  the case  if the  State                                                                   
     agrees to  the entry of  a consent decree(s)  that could                                                                   
     involve  the payment  of  significant  fines (Idaho  and                                                                   
     Hawaii   have   paid   fines    between   $500,000   and                                                                   
     $1,000,000),   be  required   to  conduct   supplemental                                                                   
     environmental  projects,  and  provide  training  within                                                                   
     DOT&PF.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     This funding would be used  to collect evidence, present                                                                   
     a defense  and begin  negotiating a  settlement.   It is                                                                   
     anticipated  that  costs are  expected  to  be at  least                                                                   
     $500.0 during  calendar year  2008 so an  extended lapse                                                                   
     date through June 30, 2009 is requested.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AMANDA RYDER, FISCAL ANALYST,  LEGISLATIVE FINANCE, explained                                                                   
that  the  modification  was  because  of  EPA's  enforcement                                                                   
action and  the money would  be used  for legal action.   The                                                                   
money was appropriated to enable  the state to pay settlement                                                                   
costs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:21:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  MOVED to ADOPT  the CS for SB  256, labeled                                                                   
25-GS2009\C, Kane, 2/29/08.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman OBJECTED for discussion purposes.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman commented  that the  original bill  was for                                                                   
approximately  $205 million  and the  committee is  approving                                                                   
$172,816,800 in  the new  version of the  bill.  There  is an                                                                   
increase  in  general  funds of  $4,150,730,800.    The  vast                                                                   
majority of this appropriation  is savings of $2.6 billion to                                                                   
the CBR, a payment of 50 percent  of the outstanding balance,                                                                   
leaving a balance  of $2.6 billion.  The CBR  currently has a                                                                   
balance  of $3.3  billion and  the addition  of $2.6  billion                                                                   
would bring the fund balance to  $5.9 billion.  If this trend                                                                   
continues,  it   is  conceivable   that  the  CBR   could  be                                                                   
completely paid off in a few years.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:24:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman  continued to explain  that a deposit  of $1                                                                   
billion  to the  SBR requires  only a  simple majority.  Also                                                                   
included  in the  fast track  supplemental  is $18.5  billion                                                                   
needed  to  ensure  that  the   senior  services  legislation                                                                   
recently passed gets  funded.  He noted that  $300 million is                                                                   
set aside  for grants for  energy assistance.   Another major                                                                   
change  is $150 million  for revenue  sharing, contingent  on                                                                   
passage of SB 72.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:26:17 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman clarified  that $3.6  billion is being  put                                                                   
into  savings, $300  million  into energy  conservation,  and                                                                   
$150  million   into  revenue  sharing.     Co-Chair  Hoffman                                                                   
commented that  the bill front-end loads the  revenue sharing                                                                   
program that  will ensure the  life of a $50  million program                                                                   
each year.  Co-Chair Stedman continued  to explain that there                                                                   
is  also, $18.5  million for  Senior Care  in the  bill.   He                                                                   
added  that there  was also a  $50 million  place holder  for                                                                   
dealing with capital appropriations  which were vetoed by the                                                                   
Administration.   Those will be  flushed out in the  next few                                                                   
days.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman  emphasized  that  Alaskans  are  concerned                                                                   
about  not  spending  the  entire   surplus;  therefore,  the                                                                   
committee is proposing to set  aside $3.6 billion in savings.                                                                   
Alaskans are concerned about energy  costs and this bill is a                                                                   
first step  to ensure that  Alaskans can take  the initiative                                                                   
to  weatherize their  homes.    He termed  the  bill a  major                                                                   
increase to what the Administration  has proposed and a major                                                                   
step in the right direction.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:29:15 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Thomas inquired  about  the appropriation  regarding                                                                   
the Anchorage  hatchery.   He shared  his understanding  that                                                                   
there was an agreement based on  bond funding paid by license                                                                   
fees.    He  noted that  cost  overruns  contributed  to  the                                                                   
decision to  have only one hatchery.   He questioned  why the                                                                   
Fairbanks hatchery was removed  from the funding.  He did not                                                                   
approve of  the approach.   He suggested splitting  the money                                                                   
equally between Fairbanks and Anchorage.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman thought  there would  be further debate  on                                                                   
the issue.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  requested  a review  of  the  vetoed  capital                                                                   
budget items.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  recalled that  the  Administration  vetoed                                                                   
over  $100 million  in  the capital  budget  last  year.   He                                                                   
thought there  was lack  of information and  miscommunication                                                                   
which  led to  the items  being vetoed.   The  list is  being                                                                   
reviewed with a target range of  about $50 million.  He noted                                                                   
that there  is no intent  to put all  of the vetoed  items on                                                                   
the  table.    He hoped  that  additional  savings  would  be                                                                   
forthcoming  during this  budget  cycle.   He mentioned  that                                                                   
there are also social issues that need to be addressed.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:34:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson wondered  if some of the vetoed  projects would                                                                   
be put back  into the supplemental budget.   Co-Chair Stedman                                                                   
called it a work in progress.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson took  that as a maybe.  He emphasized  that the                                                                   
current  supplemental document  does not  contain any  vetoed                                                                   
projects.    He  voiced concern  about  mixing  budget  items                                                                   
across  the  fiscal  year  barrier  and  mixing  capital  and                                                                   
operating items.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Hoffman recalled that  that practice has been around                                                                   
for a long time.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:       9:37:33 AM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RECONVENED:    9:38:13 AM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Hoffman pointed  out that in  this budget  process,                                                                   
fiscal  years  are  not  being  crossed.    Co-Chair  Stedman                                                                   
pointed out that  there is a $50 million place  holder in the                                                                   
bill and  the vetoed items have  not been listed in  the bill                                                                   
yet.  He commented that during  the last two years an attempt                                                                   
to add  transparency was made.   He explained that  there may                                                                   
be  problems, but  care must  be  taken when  looking at  the                                                                   
supplemental budget to look at  operating impacts, and not to                                                                   
get caught  up in  the dollar  amounts.   He urged  committee                                                                   
members  to  concentrate on  looking  at  the impact  to  the                                                                   
agencies  in order  to  achieve an  accurate  budget and  the                                                                   
smallest supplemental  budget possible.  The goal  is to have                                                                   
all of FY 09 funded out of FY 09 funds, plus savings.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson summarized  that the  $50 million  is a  place                                                                   
holder  for   vetoed  capital   projects.  Co-Chair   Hoffman                                                                   
concurred.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:41:42 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Hoffman  noted   his   intent   to  expedite   the                                                                   
supplemental budget.   He summarized  that the  total savings                                                                   
in the bill are in excess of $11.5 billion.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  agreed if the  earnings reserve  account is                                                                   
removed,  the  total is  about  $7  billion.   The  operating                                                                   
account is  about $4  billion.  He  concluded that  these are                                                                   
huge steps forward.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
There being NO OBJECTION CSSB 256 (FIN) was adopted.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:  9:43:55 AM                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RECONVENED:    9:47:12 AM                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman brought the meeting back to order.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:48:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 13(FIN)                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     "An  Act relating  to prepayments  of accrued  actuarial                                                                   
     liabilities of  government retirement  systems; relating                                                                   
     to the Alaska Municipal Bond  Bank Authority, the Alaska                                                                   
     Housing   Finance  Corporation,   and  the  state   bond                                                                   
     committee;  establishing the  Alaska Pension  Obligation                                                                   
     Bond Corporation;  permitting the Alaska  Municipal Bond                                                                   
     Bank  Authority  or a  subsidiary  of the  authority,  a                                                                   
     subsidiary  of the Alaska  Housing Finance  Corporation,                                                                   
     the  state  bond  committee,   and  the  Alaska  Pension                                                                   
     Obligation   Bond  Corporation   to  assist  state   and                                                                   
     municipal  governmental   employers  by  issuing  bonds,                                                                   
     notes, commercial paper,  or other obligations to enable                                                                   
     the governmental  employers to  prepay all or  a portion                                                                   
     of the  governmental employers'  shares of the  unfunded                                                                   
     accrued  actuarial  liabilities of  retirement  systems;                                                                   
     authorizing    a   governmental   employer    to   issue                                                                   
     obligations   to  prepay  all   or  a  portion   of  the                                                                   
     governmental employer's  shares of the  unfunded accrued                                                                   
     actuarial  liabilities  of  retirement  systems  and  to                                                                   
     enter into  a lease or other contractual  agreement with                                                                   
     a trustee,  the Alaska Municipal Bond Bank  Authority or                                                                   
     a  subsidiary  of the  authority,  a subsidiary  of  the                                                                   
     Alaska  Housing  Finance  Corporation,  the  state  bond                                                                   
     committee,  or   the  Alaska  Pension   Obligation  Bond                                                                   
     Corporation   in  connection   with   the  issuance   of                                                                   
     obligations  for  that purpose,  and  relating to  those                                                                   
     obligations;  relating  to   revision  of  the  employer                                                                   
     contribution   rate   in    connection   with   financed                                                                   
     prepayment of unfunded accrued  actuarial liabilities of                                                                   
     government  retirement  systems;  and providing  for  an                                                                   
     effective date."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE  HAWKER,  SPONSOR,  related that  HB  13                                                                   
would  authorize the  state to  engage  in pension  financing                                                                   
transactions  in  order to  fully  fund the  state's  pension                                                                   
liabilities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:50:09 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRIAN  ANDREWS,   DEPUTY  COMMISSIONER,  TREASURY   DIVISION,                                                                   
DEPARTMENT  OF  REVENUE,  reviewed  a  past  presentation  on                                                                   
Pension  Obligation Bonds  (POB's) which  covered reasons  to                                                                   
issue  the bonds,  what  risks  are involved,  the  potential                                                                   
saving that may be achieved, and  why POB's are taxable debt,                                                                   
not tax-exempt debt.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Andrews  pointed  out  that   the  mechanics  of  a  POB                                                                   
transaction are  relatively simple.  A POB  transaction tries                                                                   
to accomplish the replacement  of an existing debt obligation                                                                   
with  another form  of  debt which  has a  lower  cost.   The                                                                   
concept  is the  same as  refinancing  a home  mortgage at  a                                                                   
lower interest rate.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The 2006  actuarial report points  out that the state  has an                                                                   
$8.6 billion  unfunded liability (debt)  that it owes  to the                                                                   
state pension plan.  It carries  a cost of 8.25 percent.  Two                                                                   
weeks  ago  pricing  from  three   major  investment  banking                                                                   
institutions was  obtained.  A POB transaction  deal could be                                                                   
done for  5.25 percent,  a savings  that over  25 years  on a                                                                   
billion  dollars  represents  $23  million  a  year  or  $323                                                                   
million over 25 years discounted at 5 percent.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Andrews reported  that the  debt  markets currently  are                                                                   
exhibiting  a  lot of  instability.   He  voiced  confidence,                                                                   
though,  that a  transaction  could be  accomplished  between                                                                   
5.25  percent   and  5.75   percent.     The  interest   rate                                                                   
environment is the  lowest it has been in the  past 40 years.                                                                   
In fact, the ten year treasury  at about 3.7 percent has only                                                                   
been lower  3.9 percent  of the  time in  the past  20 years.                                                                   
The secret  to a POB  transaction is to  do it at  the lowest                                                                   
possible cost.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Andrews  explained  that   if  the  proceeds  of  a  POB                                                                   
transaction are  invested with an earnings rate  greater than                                                                   
the cost,  it is  a good deal.   Over the  past 16  years, in                                                                   
only  2  years,  2001  and  2002,   the  issuance  of  a  POB                                                                   
transaction would  have proven to  be a poor decision.   This                                                                   
is a 25 year  transaction, so it will not be  known if it was                                                                   
a good or bad deal until the POB is paid off.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:53:25 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Andrews  addressed the  political and  market risks.   He                                                                   
turned to the PERS Case Study  savings matrix on page 27 from                                                                   
his  previous handout  entitled,  "Pension Obligation  Bonds,                                                                   
February 8,  2008".  He  pointed out the annual  contribution                                                                   
rate of 35 percent in PERS - an  average of all participants.                                                                   
He   showed  how   the  various   bond  transactions   affect                                                                   
contribution  rates  and  savings.   He  explained  that  the                                                                   
matrix is unique because it also  shows the impact of cash on                                                                   
the contribution  rate.  The point  is that cash is  the best                                                                   
asset to use.  He added that a  5.25 percent cost of debt was                                                                   
used and the matrix was based on a level percent of pay.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Andrews pointed out the conclusions  on page 31.  As long                                                                   
as more  can be  earned than  the cost  of the  POB, it  is a                                                                   
better  move.     It  is  a  very  favorable   interest  rate                                                                   
environment.     Risks  associated  with  POB   issuance  are                                                                   
quantifiable  and  statistically  justified by  the  rewards.                                                                   
Doing nothing is not a viable option.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:57:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson   stated  his   understanding  about   pension                                                                   
obligation  bonds.  He  requested information  about  how the                                                                   
market uses  taxable and non-taxable  bonds.  He  wondered if                                                                   
bonds  should be  issued  for construction  projects,  rather                                                                   
than for debts.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Andrews  spoke of IRS rules  which prevent the use  of an                                                                   
earnings arbitrage.  He explained  how they are marketed at a                                                                   
higher rate.   He  talked about  tax exempt strategies  which                                                                   
have  higher risk.    The capital  projects  amounts are  not                                                                   
sufficient enough to do a $2 billion-plus deal.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson said  that investors and managers  of the funds                                                                   
are  attracted to  tax exempt  bonds.   He suggested  bonding                                                                   
capital  projects  to  pay  down  PERS/TRS  liability.    Mr.                                                                   
Andrews explained  that the state  cannot take money  and use                                                                   
it  for  unfunded  liability  and  qualify  for  a  tax  free                                                                   
exemption.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  added  that  the  state  already  has  the                                                                   
ability  to issue  bonds for capital  projects.   He gave  an                                                                   
example.   He requested  comments on  that possibility.   Mr.                                                                   
Andrews explained that  it is fine as long as  there is not a                                                                   
physical  connection.   If the capital  projects are  bonded,                                                                   
which frees  up money in the  budget, then that money  can be                                                                   
used to pay down the unfunded liability.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman said it is a policy decision.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:03:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker added that  as large and diverse as the                                                                   
state  is, there  is  a role  for both  tax  exempt debt  for                                                                   
specific  projects and  for  debt specifically  targeted  for                                                                   
reduction of  the pension liability.   He pointed out  that a                                                                   
balanced program, which is currently in place, is the best.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman  requested information  about how  the bonds                                                                   
are rated and issued.  Mr. Andrews  explained that that state                                                                   
currently has an  AA rating - a neutral rating.   An increase                                                                   
to  AA1 was  requested  recently.   POV's  are  appropriation                                                                   
bonds  and  the  ratings  are one  notch  below  other  state                                                                   
ratings - AA minus.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman asked about expectations  of the issuance of                                                                   
$1 billion  at today's market  at AA  minus - an  estimate in                                                                   
dollars.   He mentioned  the $3.6  billion  in savings  and a                                                                   
desire  to  push  the  state's   rating  higher  and  thereby                                                                   
reducing the pension debt somewhat.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:08:51 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  asked what  an appropriate  level of  debt for                                                                   
the state to carry is.  Mr. Andrews  commented that Alaska is                                                                   
very unique compared to other  states.  Tools rating agencies                                                                   
use to measure other states don't  apply to Alaska because of                                                                   
its dependence on oil for revenue.   POB transaction does not                                                                   
impact  the  state's  rating.    He said  the  state  has  an                                                                   
additional  capacity for  general  obligation  debt of  about                                                                   
$1.5 billion.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE:       10:11:23 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RECONVENE:     10:12:08 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson said  he  is interested  in  what the  prudent                                                                   
level of  debt the state can  carry is, knowing that  the $40                                                                   
billion  is  off  limits.    Co-Chair   Hoffman  thought  the                                                                   
committee should be interested in the answer.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hawker referred  to hangouts from the previous                                                                   
meeting: Pension  Obligation Bonds and Other  Post-Employment                                                                 
Benefits by  Roger Davis and  published by Orrick,  and "Time                                                                 
May Be Ripe For A POB Revival"  by Standard & Poor (copies on                                                                   
file.)   He  maintained,  in the  context  of  the bill,  the                                                                   
rating agencies  do not view POB's  as adding to  state debt.                                                                   
Structuring a method to pay off  debt can enhance the state's                                                                   
rating.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Stedman referred to a  cash flow analysis sheet from                                                                   
February 15.   He  requested additional  columns be  added to                                                                   
show the payments assumed under SB 125.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Thomas  said he is  surprised at the  adjustment that                                                                   
has  to be  made over  the 25-year  time period  for the  net                                                                   
present value  of savings.   Mr. Andrews noted  that reflects                                                                   
money's time value.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:16:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
JEFF URBINA,  VICE PRESIDENT,  WACHOVIA SECURITIES,  SEATTLE,                                                                   
reported that  Wachovia Securities was the number  one ranked                                                                   
underwriter  for municipal  bonds  in Alaska  for  2007.   He                                                                   
shared the history of his company's  involvement with pension                                                                   
obligation  bonds.   He reported  that there  are only  a few                                                                   
tools to  use to address an  unfunded pension liability.   It                                                                   
is difficult  to compare  Alaska to other  states.   Most POB                                                                   
programs   focus   on   a   three-legged    stool   approach:                                                                   
programmatic evaluation,  actuarial assumption  analysis, and                                                                   
an evaluation  of actuarial investment  pool earnings.   This                                                                   
approach frames  a solution to unfunded  pension liabilities.                                                                   
Most solutions include POB's.   Mr. Urbina summarized that he                                                                   
feels that Alaska would be successful using POB's.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:20:32 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CAROL  SAMUELS,  SENIOR  VICE  PRESIDENT,  SEATTLE  NORTHWEST                                                                   
SECURITIES,  OREGON,  shared Oregon's  experience  with  bond                                                                   
issuance.   Oregon's system is  about four times the  size of                                                                   
Alaska.   At the end  of 2002, there  was an estimate  of the                                                                   
unfunded liability totaling $17  billion.  The state provided                                                                   
legislative   changes  in   2003,   which  reduced   unfunded                                                                   
liability by about 50 percent.   Voters approved the issuance                                                                   
of  $2   billion  in  state   bonds.    In  addition,   local                                                                   
governments  issued $3 billion  in bonds.   The results  have                                                                   
been very  positive.  The  rate of return  was at  8 percent.                                                                   
It was  estimated that savings  would be about 25  percent or                                                                   
$1.4  billion.   The  highest  rate  of  return was  over  20                                                                   
percent.    She  related  the  advantages  of  the  long-term                                                                   
successes of the bonds.  She emphasized  that it is important                                                                   
to   structure   the   financing  carefully   and   have   an                                                                   
understanding as to how bond proceeds will be invested.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman  referred to  a  handout from  the  Seattle                                                                   
Northwest Securities company (copy on file.)                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:25:44 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ADAM  STOLL, VICE  PRESIDENT,  GOLDMAN SACHS,  referred to  a                                                                   
presentation in the members' packets.   He related that POB's                                                                   
are  a very  common tool  used  by governments.   Since  2003                                                                   
there have  been over $30 billion  in POB's issuances.   Last                                                                   
month a Standard  & Poor report said POB's  have been popular                                                                   
with issuers and  successful for sponsors.   He mentioned the                                                                   
current low interest  rate environment and its  advantages to                                                                   
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Stoll  referred to  page 2 of  the handout which  depicts                                                                   
three examples  of past POB's: Oregon, Illinois,  New Jersey.                                                                   
He noted  that the  interest costs  of the  three plans  vary                                                                   
greatly.   He explained the  advantage of an  investment rate                                                                   
of return on POV's issued with a low interest cost.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Thomas  noticed an  extreme  amount  of activity  in                                                                   
2002-2005, as  depicted on page 1.   Mr. Stoll said  that was                                                                   
due to unfunded  liabilities increasing greatly  during those                                                                   
years because of low returns.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:28:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
GREG  SUNDBERG, MANAGING  DIRECTOR,  MERRILL LYNCH,  reported                                                                   
that  his  company has  worked  on  this legislation  with  a                                                                   
variety  of people in  Alaska for  the past  four years.   He                                                                   
thought  the legislation  was  a good  tool and  he spoke  in                                                                   
favor of the bill.  He offered to answer questions.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative  Hawker summarized that  the legislation  is a                                                                   
prudent measure for the state to undertake.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Stedman suggested  working with  the Department  of                                                                   
Revenue  to expand the  cash flow  analysis.   Representative                                                                   
Hawker agreed.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 229                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     "An Act relating  to the Tanana Valley  State Forest and                                                                   
     to assignment of certain  forest land to the Minto Flats                                                                   
     State  Game  Refuge;  and  providing  for  an  effective                                                                   
     date."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SB 229 was scheduled but not heard.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The meeting was adjourned at 10:31 AM.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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